59: The Inner Journey of the Death & Rebirth Cycle in a Business with Ciela Wynter

The world is going through a collective “dark night of the soul,” which means that many of us (and our businesses) are going through one, too. Join me and Ciela Wynter as we discuss:
  • What is a dark night of the soul (also known as winter and death/rebirth)
  • Tools & strategies that Ciela has used to get through (and even enjoy) the winter cycle of her business.
  • What exactly is”inner work” and how it is different than traditional therapy
  • The purpose and results of the Inner Journey work.
  • How we give away our power (and reclaim it)


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About Ciela Wynter

Ciela Wynter is a CEO, Entrepreneur, Inner Work Guide, the Author of The Inner Journey, an Astrologer, and a Singer/Songwriter. She seeks the extraordinary in the every day, weaving her inner work and creative inspiration throughout her life. Ciela is a lover of self-inquiry and the transmutation of energy from pain into that which is useful. Nature in all of her forms is a deep resource for her and a reflection of what is possible—which is everything. Ciela shares vulnerable insight from her life and hopes that by courageously and openly offering her own perspective, it will add light, creativity, goodness, and beauty to yours.


Ciela’s website, Instagram

Ciela’s new songs on Spotify

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If you’re inspired by this episode, I’d love to hear your biggest Aha! moments. Take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your social media and tag me, @christieturley!

Christie Turley guides visionary leaders to reconnect with their higher genius, so they can improve decision-making and deliver greater profits, influence and impact. She is the author of the book, The Intuition-Led Business, which offers a framework on unlocking the intuitive and subconscious minds, and she is founder of Conscious State University, an online learning platform that teaches leaders and their teams how to make better decisions using science-backed methods.  A dynamic speaker, she has shared the stage with many New York Times bestselling authors and is the host of The Higher Genius Podcast. She lives in the southwestern United States with her husband and their two daughters.

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It’s my absolute pleasure to announce today’s guest Ciela Wynter. She is a CEO, entrepreneur, inner work guide and author of the Inner Journey. She’s an astrologer, and a singer songwriter. She loves seeking the extraordinary in the every day, and weaving her inner work and creative inspiration throughout her life. We’ll be talking about in today’s episode, what exactly is inner work, and how it’s so much different than traditional therapy. We’ll also talk about the inevitable death and rebirth cycle in every business. It’s the cycle that repeats that is unavoidable and inevitable. And we’ll talk about how to get through that and tools and strategies. We’ll also talk about how we give our power away, and also tools to reclaim it. So let’s go ahead and dive into today’s episode.

Ciela Wynter, you know, it’s so funny how names have a ring to them. Ciela to me, I learned Spanish back in the day, Ciela is like cielo, like the heavens, and then you have Wynter, not spelled exactly like the season. But we’re gonna be talking a little bit about the heavens and the winter today. So it’s like, by no coincidence, right? And or it’s actually it’s not a coincidence. That’s right. So, you know, I introduced you before we got started. But you know, feel free to share any other details about, you know, your story and all of that along the way. Because story is what I feel like when we talked earlier, like what we both share, we really love this idea of the hero’s journey. And one of the things that is coming up a lot in my work, and I know in your work too, is just meeting a lot of people that are going through a winter, a Dark Night of the Soul. And I talked about this a little bit in my book, how we all go through these seasons of life, these cycles are a part of nature, they’re a part of our nature. And you and I were having a lot to dish about on our last call. And you know, I would love to share some of those insights with everybody. Specifically, I know you’re going through this, like death cycle of your business. And so I love for you to share, you’ve already offered to be really vulnerable and to share some of these things. Because it’s so important for us to understand and put things into perspective. A lot of times, we don’t know what other people are going through, because all we see on social media is like the spring in the summer. It’s like the highlight reel. But you know, there’s certain things we can do when we’re in these dark times to get, to pull ourselves through. And I know that you help other people, other entrepreneurs and businesses do this too. So tell me what it means to be in this death cycle of a business.

Wow, what a question Christie. Well, you know, first looking at death, death is one side of the coin, and the other side is inevitable rebirth. So just to keep that in mind while we’re exploring, “What is death,” because death itself is the end of one way of being. It’s the end of the old. It’s permanent, in the sense of, like as if a fire is moving through that which is no longer will never be again. Yet on the other side of that is an entirely new possibility. And so I just share that, because we often have a lot of fear about death, because it is a threshold crossing, it is taking us into the unknown where we’ve never been before. And often, the process of death has to take us into very raw places within ourself and, you know, having to cultivate and to draw forth a level of courage to be able to see elements of ourselves that maybe we were not wanting to see before, that the death cycle forces us to recognize, because death is not just a happening, it doesn’t just happen. It is a process that we go through layer by layer. And we have to be able to also, to really, I would say, to benefit from it, you know, to embrace it, keep our eyes open during the process. I mean, what do we do when we’re scared? We often close our eyes.

Yeah, we-or hide under the bed, or under the –

Exactly! But what if we could, we could carry forth in a way with our eyes open and learn something that we’ve never learned before, understand something about ourselves that we couldn’t previously understand, because we’ve never experienced this. What if we could do this without hiding? And that’s what I’ve been inspired by. That’s what I’ve been kind of bringing forth and calling from within myself, as I face some very difficult death cycles. Now, as you mentioned, as a humanity, we could say, we have been going through a collective death cycle, in this past year, year and a half, two years almost. Just with what we’ve been navigating collectively, but definitely individually, because I don’t think that there’s anyone on this planet that’s not being affected or impacted by this particular moment in time, which both bonds us

and creates a lot of upheaval, a lot of self inquiry, a lot of change, a lot of challenge. So as I’m, as you refer to, I’m going through a death cycle in my own business, I’m definitely not alone. And many of us, as you were also sharing when we were talking earlier, it’s like we are, even if we don’t realize it, we are going through a death cycle of sorts, on one layer or another of our internal psyche, and it may not show up yet in our external world first for the few of us, but many of us have been seeing this in job transitions, relationship transitions, health transitions, family, friends, community that are affected or impacted that also impacts us. And so, you know, for me, I have been, I almost want to say the word enamored, but it just feels a little bit strong. But I have been embracing the death cycle for some time, because what death brings on the other side is renewal. And, you know, I have to talk myself through it often, you know, to stay present in the moment of that which I am letting go of, that which is releasing or that which is releasing meat that which is letting go of the meat, because I think oftentimes, we will place ourselves in the center of our own personal story. But maybe there’s something bigger, maybe there’s something more powerful actually occurring, where we are not the center of our own story, but we are the hero, we are the heroine, we’re a part of a much bigger story. When I started to go through this process with my own company, it was difficult. It, you know, it can be painful to recognize, I’m coming to the end of a cycle, the end of a cycle, it means I have to look at my attachments, I have to resolve that which is unresolved inside of me. It’s a period of time where we have, there’s a certain level of inner work, as I call it, to be able to really benefit from the ending and head into the transition so I can move through it more clearly and more freely, to actually absorb and embrace the new which is coming without trying to carry on, you know, forth some of these elements that I’m attached to. And so I’m, you know, as we’re talking I’m right in the middle of that process. And it, you know, some people do refer to this as a Dark Night of the Soul, I do want to say, there are many different levels of dark nights, you know, and again, that can look, that can happen because an external situation has triggered something, and we’re, you know, if we’re focused on that external reality, we may just live it there. But there’s also other opportunities to traverse the Dark Night of the Soul or going through that dark forest. And there is always light there. And inside that darkness is a tremendous amount of potential. And so, as you know that saying it’s, you know, In order to ascend, you must descend. That descent can be so powerful, it can be so enriching, it can be very revealing. It can be extremely trepidatious, daunting, terrifying at moments. But I’m encouraged and inspired to support others to go through this process, because I do understand through the various cycles that I’ve personally been through, and I see that in you, Christie, and I see it in a lot of others who are doing this work. We know what’s on the other side, we know that if we can go through this, we know that there’s something better. There’s something more true, more honest perhaps, more aligned with who we are.

I love that. I love to take people through a little bit of a journey. So I know you’re in the middle of, of this winter of this of this dark night. And yes, there’s definitely different degrees of dark night, you know. Seven years ago, dark night might not be the same dark knight we’re experiencing right now or whatever. And yeah, it’s difficult to get through a lot of times. It doesn’t have to be, you know, like you said, you’re embracing it. So what are some of the practices that you’ve put into place to help you embrace this death cycle as opposed to resisting it? Or hiding from it, like a lot of people have the tendency to do?

Mm hmm, great question. Well, I’ll say that, I’ll start with saying that I have spent my fair share, hiding and resisting. And, at a certain point, through my own inner process, starting to really observe myself, starting to really go into deeper levels of self inquiry, and understanding around the internal mechanisms, which have been, you know, kind of driving my ship for a very long time. And that can look like fear, can look like resistance, can look like hiding. And then in each one of those realms is a whole other depth of, you know, support, in a way. What keeps that fear alive, what keeps the resistance alive, what keeps us from hiding from expressing who we truly are? So, this has been a work in progress, you know. It’s taken me years, to have deeper understanding as to why I’ve been doing the things that I’ve been doing. Why have I been resisting? What is it that I’m actually resisting? So, you know, what is it that I’m actually afraid of? What have I truly been hiding from? So I start by observing myself. I start, you know, whether that’s in meditation, or just in active daily life, just bringing more attention to becoming the witness of my own thoughts, my own emotions, my actions, my gestures, my behaviors, my attitudes, start with observing. And then, through self inquiry, starting to ask myself important questions. Why am I doing the things that I’m doing? And, you know, even starting to recognize that which I couldn’t see before, because when we start to observe ourselves, at least in my case, I recognize just how much of the time I am not observing myself. So there’s a lot of unconsciousness that can occur when we are not in observation. Then the self inquiry helps to tie and create pathways of possibility there through deeper understanding. So long, you know, long answer, in synthesis, I would say, is to start to understand why we do the things that we do. And in that case, I no longer need to resist this process, because I understand that it’s actually for my benefit. The reason why I’ve been resisting it is because the parts of me that are, have been attached to an old way of being, are fighting to survive. And that’s what the resistance actually is. And so I have to find, I have to find a new relationship with that part of myself. I have to dig a bit deeper. I have to make a different choice. I always go back to this question. It’s my favorite question. To be or not to be? And when I’m resisting, when I’m hiding, when I’m in fear, I am not being. So then what is another alternative that I can do? And for me, every time and has required a lot more courage, to BE.

Yeah, and I think this quest that we’re all on, and we’re all in different phases of this quest, there’s like an, there’s like, almost like this macro-quest going on from when we are born on this Earth until we die. There’s this macro-quest. And then there’s like, all these little miniature quests along the way, right? These seasons, as they turn over from one to another. And it’s so important to keep in mind, like, if you are in the middle of winter, it’s like that saying, “It’s darkest before the dawn.” And, you know, I’d like to talk a little bit about the signs of winter and the signs of spring. Because, you know, if you think of it in terms of, you know, seasons, the nature that we see outside of our windows, and hopefully go enjoy and walk around in sometimes, right? It’s like, sometimes, there’s this in between, there’s like, the fall between the winter, you know, it’s like the in between those two seasons. And you can start to see the signs that winter is coming in that late fall. Same thing in late winter, you start to maybe see some flowers blooming, but then the next day, you have a snowstorm. And then the next day, it’s sunny. And so there’s these places in our lives where we’re in this transition phase, we’re in this in between and, and death to rebirth is the same kind of idea. It’s this in between. So talk to us a little bit about like, what were some of the first signs that showed up before winter started for you, before this dark night death cycle started? And then talk us through, like, where are you now? Are you starting to see signs of spring? Can you speak to that? Like, what are you expecting, when you start to see signs of spring? That sort of thing. So I’d love to have a little discussion on this.

Super fun. Yeah, and also, just to clarify for myself, and what I’ve seen in other people that I work with, and I’m sure you’ve experienced this, that we can be in simultaneous cycles in different aspects of our life. Our relationship could be in spring, our career could be in winter, you know, our health could be in summer, you know? So these, we are multi dimensional beings, right?

It’s like the macro, the micro and then in the micro, there’s like all these other ones. Yes, totally.

And so, for me, let’s just take the example of my previous company, and as an entrepreneur, and I wonder how this is for the people listening to this, and maybe how it is for you, Christie, but you know, as an entrepreneur, it is such an immense mirror of where I am as a founding CEO, in my own personal life, “What is it that I’m expressing? What am I manifesting? What am I materializing?” And so as I bring forth something, it is such a direct correlation to “What it is I’m most passionate about? What it is that I’m really interested in? How can I make impact?” You know, “How can I be of service?” And then the business that I’m creating is as a result of that. And so, we’ve had an incredible run for the last several years, we realized when we head into pandemic that my previous company, Jones Spark was really capable of helping people to navigate through the unknown, like that is a territory that we we understand very well. And yet, what started, what I start to see is that we had created a very boutique kind of experience, that was not scalable. We could only support a certain amount of people in the intimate capacity that we had created, as well as our branding being very niche. And so, the science just started to come in, I think winter comes in with some to speak of intuition, right, the intuition shows up, and not necessarily how we always want it to be. Intuition doesn’t always bring the news. It doesn’t always bring, you know, abundance. It doesn’t always bring that which we’re thinking, maybe we’re thinking or wanting to head in a particular direction, it may be asking us to let go of something so that something even brighter, more, you know, in alignment can show up. And so doors start to close. I believe winter comes when the opportunities start to change, there’s a, there’s a temperature drop, so to speak. And I was having dreams about this, I really, you know, shedding skin, you know, having a couple situations that were very difficult within team, within certain departments, and just start to say, “Wow, it feels like the walls are closed again! It feels like the signs are showing hibernate, time to hibernate, time to go in.” Right? So there’s this, there’s an energy that comes with winter, we’re drawn to go inside, we’re drawn to get into a stillness. We’re drawn to kind of get deeper inside of ourselves. So that started to happen. And so, because I’ve been through these cycles enough, I was at least humble enough to recognize, “I need to listen to this, and not resist it, because, oh, I think it should go this way.” But really, I think the key in moving through these cycles, honestly, truly, if we could do one thing is to listen. To listen to that internal nudge. To listen to our inner wisdom. To listen to our intuition. To listen to our internal guidance, especially when it’s not what we maybe necessarily want to hear. And so then going into a, an exercise, I applied what we teach, you know, what I’ve been, what I teach, I teach around death, transformation, rebirth, these cycles and enjoying that process and learning, really learning how to fully live amidst the cycle and due to the cycle. And so I applied my own methodology on myself. And I decided, “Okay, I’m going to fully embrace this, I’m going to go into it, I’m going to go into this cycle. I’m going to fully let go. I’m going to let go of my identity that’s wrapped up in this. I’m going to let go of my attachments, I’m going to let go of my nostalgia. I’m going to let go of, you know, holding on to all of what has been so wonderful about this and just go through it.” And it was painful, even agonizing, sorrowful. And yet, I went through this process, and I came out the other side, feeling,

relief, feeling resolve, feeling new possibilities already, you know? And so those, the signals of rebirth for me, are even inside the death process itself. And I work a lot with the metaphor of the chrysalis. And, you know, when we’re inside the chrysalis, and we’re literally in a dissolve, it can be very disorienting. But there is simultaneously there is a restructuring, there is a reconfiguring. So, at any given point, we can bring our attention to the dissolve. And at some points, that’s important to do. It’s like a post mortem. “What could have gone better? What are the lessons learned? Where have I been? What got me to this place?” You know, doing a deep review, so that we can learn and take that wisdom with us. And then also bring your attention to the new. To the new tissues, muscles, organs, you know, forming. “What is this new skin? What is this the new internal structure of who I am becoming?” So there’s some, you know, inside that transit, there is a level of excitement that we can gravitate towards, even in the midst of pain. And I, quite honestly still very much in this cycle is, even as I’m rebirthing a new company, at this very moment, I am in the in-between. I’m in the metamorphosis. I’m pulsing between the two because I don’t want to miss anything.

I love that. And you know, what really inspired me about when we’re talking before, as you mentioned, that through this cycle that you’ve been in, you’ve not only shed the old parts of you, but you’ve rediscovered parts of you that may have always been there when you started to express it! Talk to us about this release that you were telling me about and kind of how that came about!

Yeah, well, so, this is really interesting and I find especially as we go through a rebirth, it is very much like that, you know? There, I think when we are children, we had, there’s a certain level of innocence and freedom that many of us were able to access, that then later, it’s almost like we, at least for me, I can see, I went into an elongated winter, which was becoming an adult, you know, where a lot of my certain expressions of creativity, or even, you know, inspired ways of looking at the world kind of took a different turn. I went deep into competitive sports, I went, you know, deep into professional career where I was fighting to have a voice at the table, and it took so much energy to even just be there in the midst of very difficult power dynamics, and it kind of sucked my creative juices dry, especially having gone through a very difficult relationship that you know, in the end was very compromising to my soul. So, going through this death process now, is a dream. It’s a gift. It’s a, and I have to remind myself of this, because it is excruciating, too. I don’t want to make it sound paradise. But it’s, you know, what else what I want? Other than to shed the ways the constructs that I’ve created in my own mind to survive throughout my life. Now I have an opportunity to deconstruct that. To liberate myself from that. And in doing so, finding revealing treasures that yes, were there before. And it’s like this, it’s a rebirth, it’s also a homecoming. And so one of those for me has been singing. And I used to sing when I was young. I sang, you know, I was really drawn to jazz. I would sing solos and be in school plays, choir. And again, it just kind of it went into a deep hibernated state. But in this process, singing has come back for me, and it has been truly a lifeline. It has been like the the sunlight pouring through the leaves into this dark forest of a night. And so I have been able to express that. I’ve been able to bring that forward. And you know what, honestly, it has fallen into place because it is the time. It is in alignment. As I’m, it’s like I’m paying my dues as we go through winter and we do the hard work. You know, there is, there are results there. And to me, that has been freedom of expression. And I feel like I’m just getting started. I’m really excited about this. I have my first song, my first single Cocoon that came out this past month, I have another one I’m releasing in September, on my Patreon and then in October when we’re this is live, we’ll be public with that one. And then another one in January, an EP coming out in the spring, hoping to do a album next year. And again, this is, this is all about passion and it’s about finding work-life balance. You know, I think another element of being an entrepreneur, or being in business, many of us can fall into the space of bringing our full self into that which we’re creating. And working towards. And what I’ve learned is I also need to share that with my passion, with my joy, and then it can help rejuvenate, it can help to populate my energetic self inside of the work that I’m doing. Yeah.

I love that. And it’s a beautiful song. I downloaded it, it’s amazing! The lyrics, the music, it’s all wonderful. And it’s so true! It’s like, you know, there are so many gifts in the duct cycle of a business or of a relationship or of, whatever it is, career finances, whatever it is. And, you know, it is about keeping your eyes open for those small little miracles. You know, those, the sunlight coming through the leaves because the sun is always there, you know, it doesn’t go away, it’s always there. It just might be behind some clouds! It might be just a little more difficult to access. And I love that you are really following your intuition and listening to those nudges even when it might not make sense like “Really? Like, I gotta find a recording studio? Like you know, like, I think I have other things I could be doing too,” you know? But it’s, it is so important to refuel ourselves and recharge ourselves. And I feel like that’s what the hibernation is about as well. It’s, about, you know, going within and finding self care practices that makes sense for you, which I do want to talk about a little bit more in self care because that has been for me, going through a death cycle in my business, going through a winter, that has been extremely important for me, is just really taking more time to go within and to really just be with myself and understand who I am at a eternal level. Who am I in a Divine Sense? Not all the social constructs and the conditioning and who people thought I was or who I thought I was because of expectation or some other thing, some rule I’ve been following my whole life. And that, to me is one of the most precious gifts of a winter or a death cycle is that, you do start shutting these things that are not you and understanding more about who you are, and you have a beautiful voice! And I don’t know, maybe that’s not something you’ve been expressing prior to this, like your voice, whether it’s speaking or singing, but, you know, the time spent here is never wasted. And when you, what I’m getting from you is just this beautiful story that you’ve been weaving that you’ll be able to tell this like next evolution of your work because you’re using your own methodology on yourself. And I’m guessing you’re probably finding tweaks along the way, “Ooh, I need to add this!” Or “This would really help people.” And that, to me is very inspiring. So, what do you want to talk about next? You want to talk about self care?


Just what I said.

Yeah! I love you know, as you’re talking about self care, I’ve really been looking at self care as a necessity versus a luxury. And because if we’re not taking care of ourselves, we can’t take care of anyone, and especially those of us who are healers or in service or in activism, you know, whatever genre you choose, you pour your energy into. Self care is so important. And so, you know, something that we’ve played with, is self care for society, you know, no longer a luxury, but really taking care of ourselves. And especially, as you mentioned, in the winter time, of life, you know, to really, it is an opportunity, because we spend a lot of our time in summer, for example, or even as we’re coming out in spring. Interactive, we’re interactive with others, you know, in our relationships, our community, our world, maybe we’re more expressive in those moments. Winter is a very inward time, it’s such a beautiful, very intimate space to reconnect with what is most important to us. And so self care, whether it’s taking baths or you know, lavishing ourselves with oils or reading, or you know, we have curling up and, you know, with our pets, or you know, taking care of something other than ourselves, but as a way of nurturing that, that part of ourselves, cooking, taking walks, being in nature. The winter time is a really good time to reconnect with our ability to care for ourselves, because also time is very different in the winter, than in other times, other seasons. It does slow down. And it actually can, something I’ve been playing with recently of really understanding how time, you know, we have linear time. But let’s just say you’re in a Dark Night of the Soul or winter cycle, and you have let’s say, It’s September 1st to October 1st. And from the outset, if we’re not in a, if we’re just kind of in the natural rhythm of ordinary life, that might feel like a month. However, when you’re going deep, when you’re in the Dark Night of the Soul, what happens September 1, is you begin to descend, and you go down, you go down, and you go down, and my fingers still going down, and down, and then coming back up-October. Pull that now look how much time we have just traversed. So it’s not as linear as we think. And you know, when we go into these different cycles, there’s a lot of opportunity to do big inner work. And that inner work can be, require even more self care. So I believe that it’s imperative to the service that we’re bringing forth in the world is to do that to start with our own selves.

Yeah, self care-I feel like it’s such a, there’s so many myths around self care. You know, people thinking, it’s like painting your nails, or like going to the mall. It’s like, no, I think that’s like, you know, some cultural idea that’s been put out there. But that’s not what it is at all. And I feel like, during my winter, my death cycle of my business, I came up with the most amazing stuff. Like, I feel like I have been downloading my next decade of material, you know, as far as where my business is going. And I feel like I’ve left the winter. Thank goodness! Like, it’s not a fun place to be, but at the same time, that’s where a lot of those quote, seeds were planted, you know, the seeds that will grow and sprout and break through and I’ve had many epiphanies many AHA is that I don’t know, that I could have had in a summer season where it gogogo Busy, busy, you know, out, you know, speaking on stages, or talking with people, you know, it’s such a different energy in that season than it is for winter. So I love that you’ve really brought this forward. And now, I would love to switch the conversation a little bit, because I’m really curious about this and I think people would be really interested. But feel free to react on anything I just said, I’ll ask the question and then you can go which way you want to go. So the question is, you have found, like I did, some really interesting synchronicities with Astrology, and how this plays into the cycle of our life. And some people will, like, you know, think that Astrology might be silly. And then there are some people that really, like, take it seriously. I would love for you to talk about your theories, and then we can let the audience decide, like, is there a little more to this than meets the eye, regardless of where your knowledge is with Astrology? I feel like it’s too coincidental to really overlook? So.

Yeah, wonderful. Yes. So, right before I dive into the Astrology, just something that you had said, about, you know, the rhythm and the pace and what, where the seeds are planted, you know, the dark night, winter is the fertile soil of the cycle. And that is where the seeds will be planted, you know, as a creative, as an artist, entrepreneur. That is, that’s a necessary element. We need fertile soil to grow the seeds of our creation. So I love you know, as you utilize that metaphor. And it’s also a place where we transmute, you know, transmuting, the difficult times, the energy, that which is so challenging into that which is beneficial.

Astrology, for me has been an incredible tool. And I really started to study it about 20 years ago, and very, more intensely 15 years ago. And the reason why was because I was getting some different Astrology readings over the course of the years. And every time that they would look at my chart, there would be this one moment where they would literally drop their jaw. And I said, “Wait, you’re not supposed to do that! Tell me what’s going on?” You know? And it all correlated to this particular time, starting at 2020, when they would be looking a bit ahead or they saw something. And you know, now as an astrologer, I understand the necessity to allow the person receiving the reading to really find themselves in the map, that you’re disclosing to them, but creating that space, you don’t, it’s not about fortune telling. It’s not about saying, you know, this is what will happen. You can see tones, you can see possibilities, but it’s really not ethical to say this is what’s going to happen and so they couldn’t hide their own internal reaction, that there wasn’t a lot that they would say. So I decided to dive deeper into this Science, this poetic expression. It’s a language of the stars. If you love language, you’ll love learning Astrology. It’s incredible, its Mathematic, its artistic, its archetypical and for me, Astrology is a mirror of our internal psyche. So each of the planets are an archetype, Mars as warrior, as action, as masculine. Venus as feminine, as relationships, as a value system, you know. Where did these play out, in our own internal experience? -Of the sun, our will, our purpose, our identity, the moon, our emotional body, our intuition, you know. So each one of these represent a part of ourselves. And so our own personal birth chart is a map of that first moment of breath that we came on to this Earth from whatever vantage point wherever we were born, we have a particular point of reference. And then our life is the playing out of that story in real time, and our discovery of what is significant for us personally. What is our destiny unfolding? What is it? What are the lessons that we’re here to learn? And I can definitely offer my personal testimonial to the precision of Astrology. Now Astrology has given, received I would say, a lot of backlash, because there has been a lot of abuse and distortion around Astrology, especially in the realm of horoscopes, prediction of future, you know, just, there’s, just with anything, there’s a spectrum. So I would say, if you’re interested in Astrology, you know, do your own exploration find an astrologer find those books that resonate with you. For me, what resonates for me is the Psychology of Astrology, and how Astrology can be used as a tool to support my own inner work and process, not as “The Tool,” not as “The Path,” not as “The Answer,” but as a “Mirror”, as a “Reflection” for me to then go into my own Inquiry, and Discovery, and even Challenge it at times. Now, I will say that, you know, my current Dark Night of the Soul is very specific. And it does correlate very specifically to a particular transit of Pluto, and Pluto conjunct over my Sun. Now Pluto is, you know, is Lord of the Underworld, Death, Rebirth, Transformation for breakfast, lunch dinner. And the Sun, as I mentioned, Will, Vitality, Identity, Purpose. So when Pluto crosses over our Sun, they say you go into it one person and you come out another person. Now, Pluto takes about 247, 48 years to go around the Sun. So not everyone has this transit in their life. It takes you know, 15 to 25 years to go through a particular sign. It’s in Capricorn right now. Capricorn is the realm of politics, and how politics, how do we express our understanding and our emotional response to politics is through art. So what we’re seeing right now, what I realized was, “Oh, this isn’t just happening to me as a Capricorn,” but as Pluto is going over my Sun, “Oh, Pluto is- the United States is having a Pluto return.” Now many of us are, have a little bit of understanding about what maybe what a Saturn return is, or at least that’s more in the collective, where Saturn returns to where it was in our birth chart. And so it’s a time of us to align with our true dharma, our true purpose in a sense. Saturn brings that structure. And so between the ages of 27 and 30, we go through a mini crisis of sorts to bring us into alignment. Our nation, the United States is coming into a Pluto return next year, in 2022 February. But we’re already in that energetic. What is the Pluto return mean? It’s a coming to a Reconciliation of Power. Where have we as a country been in integrity with our power? And where have we been out of integrity with our power? So what we’ve been navigating through at the beginning of this decade has really been gearing up to this, this question that we are living in real time. So you can see the power of Pluto and you can see how you know the revolution that we’re experiencing. And, you know, 2020 started with a Saturn Pluto conjunction. As I mentioned, Saturn is Structure. It’s Institution. It’s what, you know, it’s kind of that old ways of thinking and doing things, and Pluto’s campaign to transform that. So, you know, I would say, you know, whatever you feel about Astrology personally, it may be of interest to you to kind of explore, as we’re navigating such unknown territory that there is, there is, there are different ways that we can look at that, and Astrology is one tool, one resource to help us gain perspective. When were inside of these big transformational moments.

Yeah, and it is so poetic. And as promised, we talked about the heavens and we talked about winter today, in honor of your amazing name. And yeah, you know, the, when I really realized about the whole Astrology thing, I’ve always been kind of interested in it, you know, I read about, you know, I’m a Scorpio Sun Scorpio rising Aries moon. So I’d read about all that and thought it was pretty interesting. And then bam, like, and the 2017, 2018 came along. And I realized that this was not coincidental. This was a period of time where Pluto was square Pluto. And I actually was searching online about this phenomenon. And I was like, “There’s no way! This is crazy!” Like, that was the start of my dark night, my winter, and it’s just been amazing looking at the transits of the, my natal chart and seeing like, “When do I come out of this? Like, when are things gonna shift a little bit?” Not that I hold it, you know hold the Universe to that. It’s not like I’m like, “Oh, it’s gonna happen.” But it kind of has! Like, it’s not even a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s like, it just has happened. And I feel like there’s such poetry in the sky, is like, I remember watching this movie, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, it was called the Star of Bethlehem or something like that. And it was this Christian guy, you know, Christian religions tend to kind of look at Astrology like “No!” And it’s interesting, because it’s in the Bible. It’s like, you know, they would go to people who know about the stars, the Magi, the three, Wiseman looked at the stars. And this guy actually went back and looked at the skies at that time, and saw such poetry, like alignments with Leo and Virgo The Virgin, and Jupiter The King Planet, Leo’s the King sign. It was just all this beautiful poetry in the skies. And if you haven’t seen that, I would recommend it, just from a purely Astrological perspective it’s pretty amazing. And just what you’re saying about this country, I feel like we’re also going through it on a collective level, like worldwide, as well as individually. It’s like, where have we abdicated our own sovereignty? Where have we given away our power? We the people in the United States, where have we gone awry with how we’ve placed our power? And even like, using intuition! It’s like, how are people giving away their power or trusting in other people as opposed to trusting in God or trusting in themselves, and having the ability to discern what they’re seeing? You know, is that true? Because there’s so many, there’s so many aspects of truth that we’re being told, but maybe not the whole truth. Maybe we won’t ever know the whole truth unless we go within and find out that truth for ourselves. So, as we close, I would just love for you to talk to me a little bit about how we give our power away. Like why does that happen? And how do we reclaim it? And then, um, and then we’ll wrap up at that at that point.

Thank you, Christie. Yeah, this has been a very intimate subject for me. Because I, you know, as an independent, strong woman, I found myself in a very compromised, very abusive relationship on a mental, emotional, physical, spiritual level, where I basically, because I was so invested in a particular mission that I thought that was giving me purpose that I felt very inspired by, I was willing to give up so much of myself. And, you know, at the outset, when I was starting to first work with this particular organization, that was very transformational in nature. And, you know, I could see people having powerful experiences, and I just, it really resonated with me and I was in a particular moment of my life was able to change the trajectory to align to this organization, I became very close with the leader of this organization, who was then, you know, became my mentor, my friend, my guide, eventually, my husband. And in that process, you know, I was giving a lot of my internal vulnerable, sharing over to him in trust that this was, for my benefit, and that I believed in what he was creating, I believed in the momentum of what I could see other people experiencing. Later, you know, later on, and year after year, I was giving and giving and giving, through a blind faith, I would say, of not in God, but in this man, who was presenting himself as an authority figure on God, and became this kind of middleman type that I was then giving my power, my time, my energy, my blood, sweat, and tears too, to a point of where I was basically a shell of a human being. You know, over several years, it was just, I was wasting away. And it wasn’t until there was a particular moment where the plot twist thickened. And I became a threat to this belief system of this entire global community. And in that process, I was gaslit, demonized, seen as a problem, because I was asking questions, I was questioning the authority who happened to be this person at the time who I had been married to, and it was, it was a death. Talk about a death cycle, death of marriage, death of livelihood, death of community, people, you know, friends that had been my bridesmaids, that had been friends with before who had brought into this community are still with him today. Homes, I lived in three countries, everything that I thought was important, I lost in that period of time. It was like a wildfire rush through my soul. But I was still there, I was standing, I could see myself in the mirror, but that was the first layer of death of identity for me. And so what I did was I went into a winter, I went into a cocoon type experience for the next year, and really started ask those questions in myself. “How did I get here?” You know, “What was I seeking in that relationship? What was I benefiting from unconsciously, like, what was I gravitating towards?” Because I realized I had been a part of something. I had even supported and helped to build this organization for years, which was ultimately just serving this one man, you know, for personal gain, that I had poured my belief into him.

And so that, you know, I would say the real lesson here, “Why do we give our power away?” Because I didn’t believe that I had access to that same connection that I projected onto him that he had with God, he had with spirit, he had access to something that I felt that I didn’t have. And I projected my power onto him, instead of looking where exists, which is inside each one of us. So I don’t, I feel like this is actually very common, we look outside of ourselves, for our own power. We look outside of ourselves for our own affirmation, you know, and validation. But really, it’s inside. And inside that winter death cycle is where we can find it. It’s that raw, vulnerable state that we get to that we feel so, so naked, in a sense, and there’s nothing left until we find that which we’ve always been looking for. And so, yeah, for me, I think the reclamation of power then, is to first acknowledge where we’ve given away our power, whether it’s to lead a spiritual leader, a guru, a politician, a boss, a brand, in a relationship, we can give our power away in some, even our own negative feedback loops. “Where have I given my power away?” Recognize that we have given our power away and then start that arduous journey of reclamation through inner work, through digging deep, through getting vulnerable, through internal rectification of a sense to ourself, like, really forgiving ourselves, seeing where we went astray, “Where did we betray ourselves?” You know, that question of self-betrayal is really important when looking at the reclamation of power. “How did I sell myself?” You know, “Where did I give away this precious energy? Where did I give away so much of my time, so much of my value into the hands of another?” and start to reclaim it, little by little. And, you know, I think even as you were sharing earlier, it’s like, the voice for me is a way of reclaiming and continuing to reclaim that power within myself. Reclaiming my voice, through speaking, through writing, through, now through singing, to, you know, bring forth more of who I am. I was in hiding for, I was in hiding during that entire time. I was hiding from myself, I was in hiding afterwards, because I had been publicly humiliated. I had been, you know, kind of on display, as the scapegoat. And, you know, so I was tender to start coming out. But through cultivation, courage, and that, now, that faith in my own heart, and in Higher Power. You know, having that courage to start coming forth, and bringing that forward because it’s not just for me, as you know, it’s like, when you share your story Christie, I light up and I understand, and I feel more seen, and I feel also more possible, because of what you’ve been able to go through, you know, and I think if we share our stories with each other, we just, we heal. We heal together.

Yeah. So beautiful! Thank you so much for your vulnerability and your courage to share these tough stories.

Yeah, thank you, Christie.

I’m sorry, I’m going to cry. I’d love for you to sign us off and tell people how they can learn more about you. And then also, I would love for you to end if you have a final nugget of wisdom to end us on a a note of wisdom.

Thank you so much Christie for having me today. It’s really an honor to be here. And I admire the work that you’re doing and the path that you’re on. And I’m excited for us to stay in touch and to keep learning about each other, and keeping an eye on each other.


You know, for me right now, as I mentioned, and launched a new company, it’s called PRISM, at http://www.MeetPrism.com and it’s really, it’s a seed, again, of possibility, of where we can learn from each other, grow together, share our wisdom together. I’ve developed a methodology that right now it’s called The Process Of Mind that can help us go through these different layers of mind, regardless of where we are, regardless, if we’ve meditated for 30 minutes or 30 years, it meets you exactly where you are. And then it’s self-paced, but community based, so we can go through it together at our own timing, and really connect with other inner explorers and seekers on the path, you know, really trying to navigate the challenges that come up along the spiritual path. So find me there, https://www.cielawynter.com is another place. Now you can find me on Spotify, with new music coming out, that is really what I’m calling Transformative Pop, to bring forth new vision, new voice, a new possibility into music that’s uplifting and inspiring, and maybe a little bit provocative sometimes. And as far as leaving us with a message, say, one that I’ve been really sitting with recently is, you know, we’re going through so much on a collective level. And you know, as a humanity and there’s a lot to be, sometimes I feel disheartened about what I’m seeing in society. And I realized, like I don’t currently have faith in society to right the ship. I don’t feel, I feel like we’ve passed the threshold where we are at such a divisive state that there’s not going to be this one societal movement that can right the ship but I do have faith in us as individuals. I have faith in everyone listening to this right now, that you can make great impact and change in yourself. And in so doing, make that impact and change in the world. So that’s what I’d love to leave with you today.